Atari Mega Archive 1/Atari Mega Archive - Volume 1.iso/lists/gem/l_0799/596

Internet Message Format | 1994-08-27 | 6.7 KB

Date: Mon, 20 Jun 1994 15:17:52 -0400 (EDT)
From: Timothy Miller <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: How-To-Vote [ADMIN]
To: [e-mail]
In-Reply-To: <[e-mail]>
Message-Id: <Pine.3.87.9406201552.A20320-0100000@grad>
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Nolte:
)>But I don't think that Find/Replace is quite that important.
)Wanna bet? To me it's very important. That's why I want:
)CTRL-F      find (search forward is default)
)CTRL-G      find next
)Sh-CTRL-G   find previous
)CTRL-R      replace (search forward is default)
)CTRL-T      replace next
)Sh-CTRL-T   replace previous
)And maybe we could have Sh-CTRL-F for "find (search backwards is default)"
)and Sh-CTRL-R for "replace (search backwards is default)".

Find/Replace is important (I know, because I often use it), but it not so
important that you need to use that many combinations for it.  Not only
is it over-done, but it's counter-productive.  The user is NOT going to
learn THAT MANY shortcuts for a relatively simple concept.  He'll go to
the menus and be even more frustrated.  Your suggestion is not
particularly easy to learn (it's intuitive alright, but there's too much
of it), and it wastes keys that could be used for more important things
(there ARE more important things than Find/Replace).  On the other hand,
what you have may be the best, but I oppose its complexity, and I want
you to think about it in relation to that and relative to all the other
things that we want to assign shortcuts to.


)>Abandon is a bad translation from  German first made by Pure  Software.
)>It should be 'Restore' or 'Reload'.
)That's right. "Reload" sounds fine to me. Let's call CTRL-H "Reload"
)instead of "Abandon".

I think 'Revert' sounds more elegant.


Le Fevre:
)OK. Let's add a `Go Back' feature (and a shortcut). Mark shortcuts should
)also be added, if supported. I suggest:
)CTRL-0                        - go back
)CTRL-1 to CTRL-9              - go to mark 1 - 9
)SHIFT-CTRL-1 to SHIFT-CTRL-9  - put a mark

This is a good idea in its own right, regardless of the reason you came
up with it.  But now what do we do with the text styles (bold, italic,
underline, etc.)?  Alt-Number?


)Evan K. Langlois:
)> Now, how I feel about keyboard short-cuts and how others feel are
different.
)> The APP_DEFS.INF file is the best way.  THAT is where the standard should
)> be, and the default entries in APP-DEFS.INF can be decided by the list
)> or by the programmer.  You could even set the way block selection works,
)> and what happens when you type something when a block is selected
(overwrite
)> or insert, or deselect).
)I agree. The block-handling method should be stored in this file so that the
)user could choose the method he prefers.

Now, I REALLY disagree.  I do not want to have to implement more than one
block-handling system just because this standard says so.  I will use
these short-cuts insofar as they are applicable to my application, but I
don't want to be FORCED to implement more than one.  The big-cursor and
the others are different enough that it becomes impractical to try to
implement more than one in the same program some times.  If my
block-handling system is efficient and adequate enough, then there should
be no need to add an inferior one.  I will stick with the standard
big-cursor.  (Can we allow for use of the Right-Shift plus arrow-keys for
the Windows method of selecting blocks from the keyboard... this is
something that I miss on the Atari and in fact makes the big-cursor
system slightly lacking in one area compared to the others if it's missing.)


)> > That may be true for you, but generally it's the other way around.
)If all the shortcuts are stored in a file (see above), it will solve these
)problems.
And the shortcuts file will also allow people to deviate so far from the
standard that the standard becomes a moot point.  We won't have a
standard... we'll have everyone's different opinion, which is no better
than the apps we have now.


)The French word processor Le Redacteur 3/4/+ has a key (ESC) to invert the
)last two characters. A shortcut for this function should be added.
Sounds interesting.  How about a short-cut to capitalize/uncapitalize the
current block or character and move to the next character also?
(toggle)  But don't let these odds and ends interfere with more important
short-cuts.



Ofir,

It would be nice if I could jump to the beginning and end of a line in a
dialog.  The amodal dialog system that I was working on also allows you
to click anywhere in the edit line and it will move the cursor to that place.


Ekl,

I don't like your idea of using a capital or lower-case letter for
shift.  I like the up-arrow because it makes it obvious what needs to be
pressed.  I also don't like your distinction between single undo and
multi-level undo.  You're making things too complicated.  Make this
simple enough that the user will actually REMEMBER them.  I DO, however,
like your suggestions about which menus to put selections in.  If those
are standardized too, then the users will know where to expect to find
them.  Your Reserved, Required, etc categorization has merit.  Ofir's
proposal has things in it that I like which you seem to be deviating
from.  Again, I think redraw should be Ctrl-A.  As I read through your
list, your use of lower and caps to denote shift is really getting on my
nerves.  Use the up-arrow symbol for shift and always capital letters.


Nolte:

Ofir:
)>How about Revert?
)reLOAD tells me more than reVERT.

Reload could mean to open a new window and load an old version... or
could mean other things too.  It's ambiguous.  Revert is not.  Eschew
ambiguity.


Ken:

)Why describe when it was created?  Just explain what the standards are, and
)which level your program complies to?  Why not make things *SIMPLE*?  This
)was the way that things were MEANT to be, right?

It would be nice if this whole thing were simple, but NOOOOO.... people
want a %)*&&^% config file to make our lives more complicated rather than
making a good standard and telling people to stick with it.

)Good idea, but make it simple.  Follow the KISS method: Keep It Simple,
)Stupid!  :)  (You'll find that I use alot of KISS stuff in LTMF...  Which
)is probably why it's so incompatible with MultiTOS...  :)
I wonder how many times I've said this myself.  :)


Ofir:

)Shift+CTRL B             Replace block start
)Shift+CTRL E             Replace block end

What does this mean?  To change the position of the start/end of an
already existing block?  If there are no discontinuous blocks, there is
no need for this.  If there ARE dicontinuous blocks, then this could be
useful (although possibly getting a little overly complex), but how is
the program to know WHICH block to extend/shrink?